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Nov 26, 2012
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toward syria shameful. this is just about one hour. >> good afternoon. the last session before lunch, the good guys, the special burden on democratic nations. we have a star-studded cast and i will hand it over to our moderator, kathleen koch. >> . ruhle for joining us today. the title of our panel in and of itself, "the good guys?" it reflects the self doubt that many of us have had today house we'll lot at a recent intervention in countries like iraq, afghanistan. we asked ourselves, were we the good guys? did we get it right? did we do the right thing? did we do more harm than good? in our panel today, i would like us not to look back, not to rehash the past, but let's look forward and really reflect on the lessons learned in these interventions and see how they can inform the actions of our communities of democracies as we move forward into the future. first, we have a panel that virtually needs no introduction but i will briefly introduce them. juan carlos pinzo. senator john mccain. someone who i have
toward syria shameful. this is just about one hour. >> good afternoon. the last session before lunch, the good guys, the special burden on democratic nations. we have a star-studded cast and i will hand it over to our moderator, kathleen koch. >> . ruhle for joining us today. the title of our panel in and of itself, "the good guys?" it reflects the self doubt that many of us have had today house we'll lot at a recent intervention in countries like iraq, afghanistan. we...
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Nov 21, 2012
11/12
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third, a -- syria. third, to develop its plan to meet people's basic needs in opposition-held areas, and this team will draw up recommendations for areas for further u.k. assistance. fourth and separately, my right norable friend, the secretary of state for international development, is looking at increasing our assistance to syrians affected by the conflict. this could include increasing our humanitarian medical assistance for wounded syrian civilians by providing u.k. funding for hospitals and mobile clinics and training for health workers. and we intend to launch new work to support victims of sexual violence in syria. this new package of support is around 2 million pounds of immediate comment. this comes on top of the training of citizen journalists, human rightsdvocates, doctors an syrian advocates we have provided and the equipment and water purification kits for unarmed groups that i announced during the summ. alongside the increased political and practical support, we are pressing the e.u. to in
third, a -- syria. third, to develop its plan to meet people's basic needs in opposition-held areas, and this team will draw up recommendations for areas for further u.k. assistance. fourth and separately, my right norable friend, the secretary of state for international development, is looking at increasing our assistance to syrians affected by the conflict. this could include increasing our humanitarian medical assistance for wounded syrian civilians by providing u.k. funding for hospitals...
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Nov 26, 2012
11/12
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on the non-i live movement in syria. -- non-violent movement in syria. it will be interesting for you to hear my perspective and interesting to hear yours. i view it as the successful failure of non-violence in syria. the first six months were markedly not violent. that did not happen by chance or coincidence. there was a great deal of planning and consciousness behind it. however, syria has been isolated for a long time from the international community. people felt they have to ring gauge in self-respect and started calling for a no-fly zone. the latest slogan in the demonstration in syria started asking for international intervention. it was around this time the syrian national council was formed. the mandate was to bring help to defend the civilians protesting. the main reason the syrians did not want to back up has to do with what happened to them in the 1980's when they brutally crushed the rebellion, especially those centered in the city. 8000 people in a 27-day campaign in the month of february 1982. they felt if they backed off they would be seve
on the non-i live movement in syria. -- non-violent movement in syria. it will be interesting for you to hear my perspective and interesting to hear yours. i view it as the successful failure of non-violence in syria. the first six months were markedly not violent. that did not happen by chance or coincidence. there was a great deal of planning and consciousness behind it. however, syria has been isolated for a long time from the international community. people felt they have to ring gauge in...
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Nov 12, 2012
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and then there's the issue of syria. please say some words about what you see as the next steps with regard to iran. how do we see that unfolding in the time ahead? what's the way forward with syria? >> yeah. three things. one, you know, the arab spring turned out to be less spring and probably better term is arab awakening. we're going to go through springs and winters and summers and falls and it's going to vary country to country and it will take a long time. but look, it was iventable, unavoidable and actually a good thing that the people of the arab world should start taking some responsibility for their future. and there's just no going back and it is very much in our interest how these awakenings come out and that they result in societies that are democratic, that are producing a better life for their people and we should do everything we can in a smart way, recognizing we're not so popular in the middle east right now, to try to help get that outcome. there are a couple big threats to that. one is syria and i'm m
and then there's the issue of syria. please say some words about what you see as the next steps with regard to iran. how do we see that unfolding in the time ahead? what's the way forward with syria? >> yeah. three things. one, you know, the arab spring turned out to be less spring and probably better term is arab awakening. we're going to go through springs and winters and summers and falls and it's going to vary country to country and it will take a long time. but look, it was...
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Nov 11, 2012
11/12
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it is about syria. you're advocating the u.s. intervened militarily in syria. in this new administration, i am thinking there is no appetite for the american people for another war. if we got involved militarily, how do we decided to support? this looks like a hybrid-headed monster. how do we decide who to support and be on the right side? >> it is good to see you again. thanks for the question. it is a tough one to answer. you are right about the american people but we need to look at this. i have been through this twice in the 40 years i have been in government after vietnam and now after the venture's of the first decade of this century. i think there was a poll that made the distinction -- given the choice between dealing powerfully with the iran nuclear threat or avoiding military action, the american people in october went from 50%-56% to take action and to avoid military from 46-40%. the spread open from 6-12%. i think this was a mistake we made in libya to some degree but it turned out halfway well -- what the american people don't want is hundreds of t
it is about syria. you're advocating the u.s. intervened militarily in syria. in this new administration, i am thinking there is no appetite for the american people for another war. if we got involved militarily, how do we decided to support? this looks like a hybrid-headed monster. how do we decide who to support and be on the right side? >> it is good to see you again. thanks for the question. it is a tough one to answer. you are right about the american people but we need to look at...
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Nov 20, 2012
11/12
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has done on syria. i understand the domestic reluctance to be involved, and i do not think the region itself wants direct military involvement in syria. we need to recognize that we are facing a situation where the country might cease to exist, the infrastructure of the country might cease to exist soon with all the destruction that is going on, and we are witnessing a rise in the radicalism and particularly by radical islamist groups in the country. the sooner the regime goes, the better. everybody understands in the region that the assad has zero chance of survival. the question is what kind of serious left after he goes. the u.s. needs to be a bit more proactive in working with the russians on making sure their interests are addressed in syria. i do not think russia is wedded to assad. may be establishing a no-fly zone from turkey, may be providing direct military assistance, but something to break the region's debt lot. syria cannot afford for a long time much of the destruction that it is undertaki
has done on syria. i understand the domestic reluctance to be involved, and i do not think the region itself wants direct military involvement in syria. we need to recognize that we are facing a situation where the country might cease to exist, the infrastructure of the country might cease to exist soon with all the destruction that is going on, and we are witnessing a rise in the radicalism and particularly by radical islamist groups in the country. the sooner the regime goes, the better....
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Nov 13, 2012
11/12
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in syria? guest: the u.s. is already doing something. it does not seem like there is additional pressure. the rest of the u.s. allies, turkey, they are afraid of getting involved. the only pressure, or the most active countries right now we're probably -- are probably qatar and saudi arabia. we have troops and special forces along the border who are vetting who those bombs get delivered to. it is unclear exactly what the status of that is right now, but i do not feel that allies, as it happened in libya, where france and england really took the bull by the lens and pulled the u.s. into action and does not seem like that's the case in syria. there is a fear that it could widen, but there is a degree of caution. host: benjamin pauker, senior editor of "foreign policy" magazine. could there be fallout on for a policy when it comes to been gauzy attacks in libya? -- benghazi attacks? guest: we don't know much. this is one of those scandals that comes out in drips and drabs. there is a consensus tha
in syria? guest: the u.s. is already doing something. it does not seem like there is additional pressure. the rest of the u.s. allies, turkey, they are afraid of getting involved. the only pressure, or the most active countries right now we're probably -- are probably qatar and saudi arabia. we have troops and special forces along the border who are vetting who those bombs get delivered to. it is unclear exactly what the status of that is right now, but i do not feel that allies, as it happened...
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Nov 15, 2012
11/12
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, an inclusive syria, a moderate syria. we have seen extremist elements insinuate themselves into the opposition. and one of the things that we have to be on gourd about, particularly when with start talking about arming opposition, -- opposition figures is that we're not indirectly putting arms in the hands of folks who would do americans harm or do israelis harm or otherwise engage in actions that are detrimental to our national security. so we're constantly probing and working on that issue, the more engaged we are in the more we'll be in a position to make sure that we are encouraging the most moderate, thoughtful elements of the opposition that are committed to inclusion, observance of human rights and working cooperatively with us over the long-term. all right? thank you very much. >> [inaudible] >> that was a great question, but it would be a horrible precedent for me to answer your question just because you yelled it out. so thank you very much guys. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] [captioni
, an inclusive syria, a moderate syria. we have seen extremist elements insinuate themselves into the opposition. and one of the things that we have to be on gourd about, particularly when with start talking about arming opposition, -- opposition figures is that we're not indirectly putting arms in the hands of folks who would do americans harm or do israelis harm or otherwise engage in actions that are detrimental to our national security. so we're constantly probing and working on that issue,...
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Nov 11, 2012
11/12
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lest we forget, also on the front line of the two of syria's neighbors. he had a fascinating part to look at two of the most important issues on which the administration of's agenda. he knows about a second turns from his experience as a deputy national security adviser in the bush administration. in that second term, we saw at least two major middle east initiatives, the iraq surge and the annapolis process. we have to go second term experts to open up our discussion on what we will look for and what we should look for in the second term of president obama's administration. then i will come back and offer some remarks of my own. first we will turn to dennis ross. >> thank you for reminding me of my age. i was a child prodigy. that is why i was in the reagan administration. [laughter] it is true i have the experience of planning and working through second terms, although i think one of the most important things to keep in mind was that precisely because it is a second term, you have an administration that already has an established presence. you may well
lest we forget, also on the front line of the two of syria's neighbors. he had a fascinating part to look at two of the most important issues on which the administration of's agenda. he knows about a second turns from his experience as a deputy national security adviser in the bush administration. in that second term, we saw at least two major middle east initiatives, the iraq surge and the annapolis process. we have to go second term experts to open up our discussion on what we will look for...
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Nov 30, 2012
11/12
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we see this daily in syria and in other corners. but we are determined to flourish in spite of all of these developments. we are determined to make israel stronger and more secure. we will always stretch one hand to look for any opportunity to knock on any door, open any window, to find a way to make peace. we will always be ready with -- ready to pull it if it becomes ultimately necessary. on this vision, hopefully one of our region coming to in my term as minister of defense -- i can tell you that from my experience, after political life there is real life waiting us. i am sure we will find a way to enjoy life without losing sight of the interests of our nation's. we will always have part of our part with the defense and intelligence issues and challenges. i thank you once again very much for the long decades of friendship and for this honor. we hold our relationship with you dependent on the defense establishment -- i hold my relationship with you highly. thank you very much. now we have something to give to you. it is a small ir
we see this daily in syria and in other corners. but we are determined to flourish in spite of all of these developments. we are determined to make israel stronger and more secure. we will always stretch one hand to look for any opportunity to knock on any door, open any window, to find a way to make peace. we will always be ready with -- ready to pull it if it becomes ultimately necessary. on this vision, hopefully one of our region coming to in my term as minister of defense -- i can tell you...
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Nov 26, 2012
11/12
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at submit point we must find ways to peacefully resolve the war in syria, the conflict between israel and the palestinians, and the destabilizing threat from iran and every time and overtime we also must address the religious, economic and cultural differences that create tension and that are exploited by extremists. still, as our country emerges from a decade of large-scale conflict and confronts new fiscal constraints at home, i, frankly, worry that our political system will prevent us from making the investments in diplomacy and development that we need to ensure we protect america's interests in these volatile regions of the world. these investments unfortunately lack a constituency in the congress at a time of great fiscal pressure. indeed, we face the process of budget sequestration that would be devastating to national security, not just because what have it does to our national defense, but also for what it does to these programs that support diplomacy and enhance our quality of life. our men and women in uniform know too well what sacrifice is all about for the sake of our na
at submit point we must find ways to peacefully resolve the war in syria, the conflict between israel and the palestinians, and the destabilizing threat from iran and every time and overtime we also must address the religious, economic and cultural differences that create tension and that are exploited by extremists. still, as our country emerges from a decade of large-scale conflict and confronts new fiscal constraints at home, i, frankly, worry that our political system will prevent us from...
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Nov 30, 2012
11/12
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or how the upheaval in syria and the rise of the muslim brotherhood in egypt have affected hamas. how the treaty between egypt and israel remains the bedrock for peace in the region despite all the change going on around it. how israel's concerns over iran's nuclear program shape its overall security posture. then there are the economics of border crossings and fishing rights and concerns about smuggling and arms proliferation. the list goes on. the united states really does need to bring an unprecedented level of strategic sophistication to these -- rather than just going and chasing after the crisis of the moment. american policy makers need to play chess, not checkers. some would have us wall off certain challenges -- that is just not realistic in today's world. that leads me to the fifth area -- a set of interconnected global challenges that defied both national borders and easy solutions. climate change -- poverty, hunger, disease, nuclear proliferation, human trafficing, women's rights, international terrorism, and more. no one nation can solve many of these problems alone.
or how the upheaval in syria and the rise of the muslim brotherhood in egypt have affected hamas. how the treaty between egypt and israel remains the bedrock for peace in the region despite all the change going on around it. how israel's concerns over iran's nuclear program shape its overall security posture. then there are the economics of border crossings and fishing rights and concerns about smuggling and arms proliferation. the list goes on. the united states really does need to bring an...
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Nov 27, 2012
11/12
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about syria. i've seen several iranian papers, oh, we should be doing this and oh, we should be doing something about syria and afghanistan. i want to agree with both my colleagues. but also point out that there's a are continuum here and it's a drell indicate walk. you -- delicate walk. you want the person you're bargaining with to feel an incentive to bargain, right, which means they're probably feeling a little pain or they're worried about their situation so they want to get a deal to settle something up so they can deal with their other problems. you don't want them to feel sho threatened that what they do is pull back and say we are in too weak a position to negotiate. you know, the world is surrounding us and we will be taken advantage of if we negotiate from weakness. there are problems in syria and elsewhere are real. i think the arab spring has undercut their ability to be a voice for the arabs, but it's going to require some finesse in how you deal with that so they don't simply pull ba
about syria. i've seen several iranian papers, oh, we should be doing this and oh, we should be doing something about syria and afghanistan. i want to agree with both my colleagues. but also point out that there's a are continuum here and it's a drell indicate walk. you -- delicate walk. you want the person you're bargaining with to feel an incentive to bargain, right, which means they're probably feeling a little pain or they're worried about their situation so they want to get a deal to...
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Nov 3, 2012
11/12
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when it comes to syria, assad does need to go. we need to work with moderates in opposition and provide them with military hardware and support financially so they can do battle. the citizens there, they are being slaughtered by the thousands. when it comes to libya, i thought what happened there is unacceptable. i thought the handling of it was unacceptable. we need to have a full and immediate investigation to make sure we find out what happened. more importantly, iran, my opponents said earlier we need a nuanced approach. there is no such thing. there is only one person who will stand with israel. >> another 30 seconds. >> i have three older brothers, all of whom served in the military. my oldest brother was career military. he served in vietnam. i have some sense of not only how tough and capable they are. that is why i believe the best we can do for our military is be very careful and thoughtful about when we ask them to go to war. we need to have clear objectives. we need to know what our plan is and how we plan to get out.
when it comes to syria, assad does need to go. we need to work with moderates in opposition and provide them with military hardware and support financially so they can do battle. the citizens there, they are being slaughtered by the thousands. when it comes to libya, i thought what happened there is unacceptable. i thought the handling of it was unacceptable. we need to have a full and immediate investigation to make sure we find out what happened. more importantly, iran, my opponents said...
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Nov 14, 2012
11/12
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, an inclusive syria, a moderate syria. we have seen extremist elements insinuate themselves into the opposition. and one of the things that we have to be on gourd about, particularly when with start talking about arming opposition, -- opposition figures is that we're not indirectly putting arms in the hands of folks who would do americans harm or do israelis harm or otherwise engage in actions that are detrimental to our national security. so we're constantly probing and working on that issue, the more engaged we are in the more we'll be in a position to make sure that we are encouraging the most moderate, thoughtful elements of the opposition that are committed to
, an inclusive syria, a moderate syria. we have seen extremist elements insinuate themselves into the opposition. and one of the things that we have to be on gourd about, particularly when with start talking about arming opposition, -- opposition figures is that we're not indirectly putting arms in the hands of folks who would do americans harm or do israelis harm or otherwise engage in actions that are detrimental to our national security. so we're constantly probing and working on that issue,...
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Nov 20, 2012
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do syria and iran have a stake in keeping the israeli gaza crisis burning? yes? [laughter] we respect your economy of language, rob. >> ok. i would like to go back to gaza, too. i have been thinking about the landscape is shifting in the region. and the players we're looking -- they coordinate in a whole new way of kind of policy. i do not want to overplay this. the concept that we can work together to create a new reality. if they have a vested interest, it is in their neighborhood. i wonder if the outcome is don't be the end of the israeli policy in support of the strangulation of gaza and the sea doesn't break out -- and see gaza break out as the palestinian state? then what does the u.s. do about that since we don't seem to have the capacity to influence the key players on the ground that that is a bad idea? and how to reshape it? >> i think your question is of absolutely right -- is absolutely right. i do not know whether anybody was planning it this way, but i think the trends -- hamas emerging as the central power in the palestinians. that is where things
do syria and iran have a stake in keeping the israeli gaza crisis burning? yes? [laughter] we respect your economy of language, rob. >> ok. i would like to go back to gaza, too. i have been thinking about the landscape is shifting in the region. and the players we're looking -- they coordinate in a whole new way of kind of policy. i do not want to overplay this. the concept that we can work together to create a new reality. if they have a vested interest, it is in their neighborhood. i...
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Nov 6, 2012
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i would not be in syria unless congress makes a declaration of war. we will not stay in afghanistan if i'm elected president unless congress makes a declaration of war. only by going through that constitutional process can we ensure that the will of the american people is addressed when we have issues like syria, afghanistan, and iraq. >> gary, this has to be rebuttal. do you want to rebut something, gary? >> i was opposed to going into iraq before we went into iraq. i did not think they had weapons of mass destruction. i thought if they had weapons of mass destruction, we have the capability to see weapons of mass destruction. afghanistan, i thought that was totally warranted. we were attacked, we attacked back. i would argue after having been in afghanistan for six months, we wiped out al-qaeda. that was 11 years ago. we should have gotten out of afghanistan 11 years ago. [applause] here we are now on iran. the demonstration after 9/11 was in iran by over one million citizens that showed up in support of the united states. and we're going to bomb ir
i would not be in syria unless congress makes a declaration of war. we will not stay in afghanistan if i'm elected president unless congress makes a declaration of war. only by going through that constitutional process can we ensure that the will of the american people is addressed when we have issues like syria, afghanistan, and iraq. >> gary, this has to be rebuttal. do you want to rebut something, gary? >> i was opposed to going into iraq before we went into iraq. i did not think...
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Nov 9, 2012
11/12
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as far as the president would go in syria, the next step is some kind of a no-fly zone. you will start seeing the model that he put in place and advocated for in libya. he is someone who moves incrementally. the next real step is the first plunge into military would be directly harming the rebels. they do not know the rebels that well. they do not want to start sending heavy weapons to groups that are clearly influenced by islamists. so that has been one caution. then the next step would likely be considering some sort of international no-fly zone like what took place in libya. host: iran's nuclear program? do we know what he might do? guest: i think in terms of old assertions of next steps, some of that may wait for the next secretary of state. this is something that the next secretary of state would be shepherding through and then stick it in somebody else's lap. it is probably strategically not what the administration wants to do unless your hand is really forced on the issue. in both of these instances, particularly next steps in syria, libya does serve as a major wa
as far as the president would go in syria, the next step is some kind of a no-fly zone. you will start seeing the model that he put in place and advocated for in libya. he is someone who moves incrementally. the next real step is the first plunge into military would be directly harming the rebels. they do not know the rebels that well. they do not want to start sending heavy weapons to groups that are clearly influenced by islamists. so that has been one caution. then the next step would likely...
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Nov 8, 2012
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as far as the president would go in syria, the next step is some kind of a no-fly zone. you will start seeing the model that he put in place and advocated for in libya. he is someone who moves incrementally. the next real step is the first plunge into military would be directly harming the rebels. they do not know the rebels that well. they do not want to start sending heavy weapons to groups that are clearly influenced by islamists. that has been one caution. the next step would be considering some kind of international no-fly zone like what took place in libya. host: iran pose a nuclear program? do we know what he might do? guest: i think in terms of old assertions of next steps, some of that may wait for the next secretary of state. this is something that the next secretary of state would be shepherding through and then stick it in somebody else's lap. it is probably strategically not what the administration wants to do unless your hand is really forced on the issue. in both of these instances, particularly next steps in syria, libya does serve as a major warning and
as far as the president would go in syria, the next step is some kind of a no-fly zone. you will start seeing the model that he put in place and advocated for in libya. he is someone who moves incrementally. the next real step is the first plunge into military would be directly harming the rebels. they do not know the rebels that well. they do not want to start sending heavy weapons to groups that are clearly influenced by islamists. that has been one caution. the next step would be considering...
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Nov 5, 2012
11/12
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they're working on syria. you could point to examples in borrow ran, for example, that's not moving as fast. part of the obama philosophy is very -- which is very interesting is trying to find what is possible in this area that does not get america caught in the trap of unnecessary war, repetition of quagmire. you have two examples of egypt and libya which are most striking. people on the streets clear my opposition to the dictator there. there are plenty of examples, for example, bush in tan man square. -- ton man square. -- tiananmen square. there's lots of examples where we tell folks -- bush sr. and iraq telling saddam if you want to crack down the shia, so be it . and because of that factor, that's one of the key factors that got them pushed out. libya was a different story where you have the possibility of a massacre occurring and obama said i would like to stop that from happening, very much so. but if i can't get a true blue international coalition through the u.n., then i might not do it. >> how about
they're working on syria. you could point to examples in borrow ran, for example, that's not moving as fast. part of the obama philosophy is very -- which is very interesting is trying to find what is possible in this area that does not get america caught in the trap of unnecessary war, repetition of quagmire. you have two examples of egypt and libya which are most striking. people on the streets clear my opposition to the dictator there. there are plenty of examples, for example, bush in tan...
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Nov 21, 2012
11/12
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at some point, we must find ways to peacefully resolve the war in syria, the conflict between israel and the palestinians and to the destabilizing threat from iran. and every time and overtime, we also must address religious, economic and cultural differences that create tension and that are exploited by extremists. still, as our country emerges from a decade of large-scale conflict and confronts new fiscal constraints here at home, i frankly worry that our political system will prevent us from making the investments in diplomacy and development that we need to ensure we protect america's interests in these volatile regions of the world. these investments, unfortunately, lack a constituency in the congress at a time of great fiscal pressure. indeed, we face the prospect of budget sequestration. it would be devastating to national security not just because of what it does to our national defense, but also for what it does to these programs that support diplomacy and enhance our quality of life. our men and women in uniform know too well what sacrifice is all about for the sake of our
at some point, we must find ways to peacefully resolve the war in syria, the conflict between israel and the palestinians and to the destabilizing threat from iran. and every time and overtime, we also must address religious, economic and cultural differences that create tension and that are exploited by extremists. still, as our country emerges from a decade of large-scale conflict and confronts new fiscal constraints here at home, i frankly worry that our political system will prevent us from...
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Nov 17, 2012
11/12
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it is extremely urgent to find a way to end the killing in syria. it sets a terrible example to other bad guys in the region and elsewhere if we do not act. >> we are going to have to wrap it up pretty soon, but we will take two more comments. >> thank you. in the australian high commissioner in ottawa. i am standing in for my defense secretary, but it is quite fun for me, if not for him. i want to make a point, having had a long period of being a diplomatic practitioner. particularly in my part of the world, indochina, asia, jakarta, our part of the world has different views. we know what has happened in china. thailand has sufficiently grown to no longer be a recipient of foreign aid. similarly, indonesia, which will shortly be the home of the world's largest middle class. indian a longer needs as much assistance. burma has recently come from jurassic park. this is the product of people coming out of poverty. once upon a time, not very long ago, people from all of those countries took to the sea in rickety boats to get away. they do not need to an
it is extremely urgent to find a way to end the killing in syria. it sets a terrible example to other bad guys in the region and elsewhere if we do not act. >> we are going to have to wrap it up pretty soon, but we will take two more comments. >> thank you. in the australian high commissioner in ottawa. i am standing in for my defense secretary, but it is quite fun for me, if not for him. i want to make a point, having had a long period of being a diplomatic practitioner....
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Nov 21, 2012
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at some point we must find ways to peacefully resolve the war in syria, the conflict between israel and the palestinians, the threat from iran and. every time and over time we must also address the differences that create tension and that are exploited by extremists. as our country emerges from the decade of large-scale conflict, confronts a new fiscal constraints at home, i worry that our political system will prevent us from making the investments in diplomacy and development we need to ensure we protect american's interest in these volatile regions of the world. these investments lack a constituency in congress at a time of great fiscal pressure. we face the prospect of budget sequestration that would be devastating to national security, not just because of what it does to national defense but also what it does to these programs that support diplomacy and enhance our quality of life. men and women in uniform know too well what sacrifice is about for our nation. for more than a decade after we were attacked on december 011, bley have fought, they have le d in distant battlefields. the
at some point we must find ways to peacefully resolve the war in syria, the conflict between israel and the palestinians, the threat from iran and. every time and over time we must also address the differences that create tension and that are exploited by extremists. as our country emerges from the decade of large-scale conflict, confronts a new fiscal constraints at home, i worry that our political system will prevent us from making the investments in diplomacy and development we need to...
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Nov 18, 2012
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. >> let me ask about going north and west to syria. syria was discussed. the march was discussed the less difference is seen between the two candidates. it came down to should we be arming the opposition. let me ask you that in a broader question. issue with the farming the opposition? be arming thee opposition? >> the american position on foreign affairs and is like the second world war when the united states had a position of dominance. it was found to be transitory. we have that degree of preeminence. it is still the most single viable country and the world. the key to stability in many regions and progress, but when you say you're no longer preeminent it means that you have to be able to establish priorities. when you establish priorities, we have to begin with an analysis of what the problem is. i have great respect for them. i do not think that is a correct analysis. i think that assad started out [indiscernible] someone is driven by a great quest of power. he has certainly committed many outrageous act that is fundamentally a conflict for the ethnic
. >> let me ask about going north and west to syria. syria was discussed. the march was discussed the less difference is seen between the two candidates. it came down to should we be arming the opposition. let me ask you that in a broader question. issue with the farming the opposition? be arming thee opposition? >> the american position on foreign affairs and is like the second world war when the united states had a position of dominance. it was found to be transitory. we have that...
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Nov 12, 2012
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what is the way forward with syria? >> three things. one, you know, the arab spring turned out to be less spring. a better term is the arab awakening. it is going to take a long time. look, it was inevitable, unavoidable, and actually a good thing that the people of the arab world should start taking some responsibility for their future. there just is no going back and it is very much in our interest how these come out and that they result in societies that are democratic and producing a better life for their people. we should do everything that we can, in a smart way, recognizing that we are not popular in the middle east, to try to get that outcome. there are a couple of big threats. one of them is syria. i am more worried about them than anything. no one is pushing off the stage. the longer that he stays, the more sectarian the conflict is going to become and the more it is opening a door to al qaeda and other terrorist groups. you are beginning to see a sectarian war, backed up by the saudis, others, and iran, that is making it star
what is the way forward with syria? >> three things. one, you know, the arab spring turned out to be less spring. a better term is the arab awakening. it is going to take a long time. look, it was inevitable, unavoidable, and actually a good thing that the people of the arab world should start taking some responsibility for their future. there just is no going back and it is very much in our interest how these come out and that they result in societies that are democratic and producing a...
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Nov 22, 2012
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i do not think overall it will change the picture in syria. host: shibley telhami has been our guest, university of maryland professor. your relationship with [indiscernible] guest: she is a non resident fellow. and she also has the committee for what we call the lecture peace. it is a student lecturer that hosted people like nelson mandela and jimmy carter and mary robinson. extraordinary personalities but we have almost annually. and she comes to the university of maryland usually twice each year. we have been brought drug that association with her. host: you mentioned she is in egypt currently? guest: she is currently in egypt. that is celebrated in recent months, including credit-card government, mostly in commemoration. and president morsi joined her. which was quite extraordinary and unexpected. host: shibley telhami, thank you for being here. two more segments coming up on thanksgiving morning. we will be looking at native american issues. but next, and look at poverty in the united states. we will be right back after this update from c
i do not think overall it will change the picture in syria. host: shibley telhami has been our guest, university of maryland professor. your relationship with [indiscernible] guest: she is a non resident fellow. and she also has the committee for what we call the lecture peace. it is a student lecturer that hosted people like nelson mandela and jimmy carter and mary robinson. extraordinary personalities but we have almost annually. and she comes to the university of maryland usually twice each...
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Nov 4, 2012
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you have had dramatic situations enter libya, syria. the camp are two examples. it is pretty difficult to slip -- flip a switch. part of the obama philosophy -- which is very interesting -- trying to find what is possible lead control this. that does not get america caught in the truck of unnecessary war. he have these two examples the most striking. people on the street clearly with opposition to the dictator there. there are plenty of examples. bush, a junior with a crackdown there. lots of examples where we tell people where brush, same year says, you want to crack down, we will not get involved there. that is a typical way of it going down. 4 blessed is a, you do not get to crackdown and have america stand aside. he will not keep your mind if he did necessarily. that was the key factor that of them crushed out. libya is a different story we have a possibility of a massacre occurring. obama said, i will like to stop that from happening. if i can i get a true blue coalition through the you and i will not do it to it. critics howled about a true blue declaration
you have had dramatic situations enter libya, syria. the camp are two examples. it is pretty difficult to slip -- flip a switch. part of the obama philosophy -- which is very interesting -- trying to find what is possible lead control this. that does not get america caught in the truck of unnecessary war. he have these two examples the most striking. people on the street clearly with opposition to the dictator there. there are plenty of examples. bush, a junior with a crackdown there. lots of...
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Nov 4, 2012
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we need to rally countries around the world to isolate syria. >> do you support the use of drones? >> yes, as much as possible. we are in a war on terror. there are evil people around the world trying to kill us. we need to use every tool at our disposal to find and kill them. >> drones is something there that is a tool. >> do you support the dream that? >> i do. it needs to be practical, it needs to be fair, and it needs to be humane. we need to make sure people pay fines to have broken the law, i think we need to make sure people cannot get moved in front of the line in front of those who have been here illegally. have to be practical. we cannot simply expel people and put them in jail. i do not what the kids we have invested millions of dollars in to go overseas. >> that is an answer trying to have its for five different ways. the dream that move people to the front of a line. i won my government to secure its border and i want them to do that before we have a discussion about immigration reform. 15 to 19%. that is a huge concern. we have 15 to 19% unemployment in this country.
we need to rally countries around the world to isolate syria. >> do you support the use of drones? >> yes, as much as possible. we are in a war on terror. there are evil people around the world trying to kill us. we need to use every tool at our disposal to find and kill them. >> drones is something there that is a tool. >> do you support the dream that? >> i do. it needs to be practical, it needs to be fair, and it needs to be humane. we need to make sure people...
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Nov 17, 2012
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we do not have the divisions we are facing in syria. i so far there are issues that they are facing but i think we should have hope and faith and i think with the political settlement this should provide a ground for hope in the future. thank you. >> thank you. greg. >> i would like to echo dan in thanking you all for coming out on this very dreary day especially after a holiday for i'm sure many of you. and thanks to you as well for staying up a little late and giving us his great insight. as all of us know, the united states has just been through a presidential election. president barack obama was reelected. and the obama administration had a number of i think foreign policy and counter terrorism successes during the first administration obviously osama bin laden was killed in the special operations raid. president obama has overseen the drawdown of troops in iraq as well as in afghanistan. and yet i think one of the most lasting legacies from the first term of the obama administration may well be what u.s. officials term the yemen mo
we do not have the divisions we are facing in syria. i so far there are issues that they are facing but i think we should have hope and faith and i think with the political settlement this should provide a ground for hope in the future. thank you. >> thank you. greg. >> i would like to echo dan in thanking you all for coming out on this very dreary day especially after a holiday for i'm sure many of you. and thanks to you as well for staying up a little late and giving us his great...
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Nov 1, 2012
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whether it be in the middle east, which you read about every day, whether it be syria, iran, whether it be pakistan. continuing work in afghanistan. the sunni-shiia fault lines in the middle east. whether it be the pacific with the rise of china. we look at what's going on with the islands within the pacific. korea, 29-year-old leader in charge of korea. what is he going to do in the future? you have narcoterrorism, transnarcoterrorism, what does that mean to the future and security of our country? i don't know. but these are questions we have to take a look at. and these are questions that we have to be prepared to operate in. the other thing that i have learned frankly, the hard way, over the last several years my time in iraq is you have also have opportunists who will try to take advantage of instability and destabilizing influence and nascent governments or failing governments. and these opportunists are maybe unpredictable. and i always use iraq as an example. there's lots of opportunists in iraq. iran, turkey, saudi arabia, kuwait, nonstate actors. all opportunists trying to t
whether it be in the middle east, which you read about every day, whether it be syria, iran, whether it be pakistan. continuing work in afghanistan. the sunni-shiia fault lines in the middle east. whether it be the pacific with the rise of china. we look at what's going on with the islands within the pacific. korea, 29-year-old leader in charge of korea. what is he going to do in the future? you have narcoterrorism, transnarcoterrorism, what does that mean to the future and security of our...
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Nov 27, 2012
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prepare an attack on the reactors considering potential success of the operation against the facility in syria. and this will all remove iran's constraints to acquire nuclear weapons. so we are either -- really concerned with the situation. let me add people of iran will continue to suffer under very tough sanctions. so there are two things which must change. diplomacy and the inspections. first diplomacy. five plus one has served the purpose of the it united front. five plus one mean to me united nations security council related global responsibility, europeans like to prefer three plus three which means the european union is the major player. i'm nervous about that, if you are europe you had better say three plus three otherwise you will not be served your dinner. five plus one, of course, it is important to keep on. i think u.s. should not do what it has done, hide inside this group. u.s. has now tried to take responsibility. to change, to start with its relations with iran. isn't it time now to sort of give up on the occupation of the u.s. embassy in connection with islamic revolution 1979
prepare an attack on the reactors considering potential success of the operation against the facility in syria. and this will all remove iran's constraints to acquire nuclear weapons. so we are either -- really concerned with the situation. let me add people of iran will continue to suffer under very tough sanctions. so there are two things which must change. diplomacy and the inspections. first diplomacy. five plus one has served the purpose of the it united front. five plus one mean to me...
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Nov 2, 2012
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we have more troops in syria and libya -- the country is going crazy. host: i will give you a chance to jump and. guest: i will address food stamps. we have not in a meaningful enough improvement to pull a lot of people off of food stamps. pull people off of welfare. a lot of these support programs -- we need to see a much broader recovery to see improvement in that sense. when the most striking figures that comes out every month and this report -- if you looked at the breakdown of unemployment by education -- people -- the unemployment rate across the nation for people 16 and older, is 7.9%. people 25 years of age and older, the unemployment rate if you have a bachelor's degree or higher is 3.8%. it is still higher than it was, of course, before the downturn. but the 3.8% is substantially lower than the right across the economy. for someone who does not have a high-school diploma that did not graduate from high school, the unemployment rate is 12.2%. that is if you have not graduated from high school. if you have a bachelor's degree or higher, it is 3.
we have more troops in syria and libya -- the country is going crazy. host: i will give you a chance to jump and. guest: i will address food stamps. we have not in a meaningful enough improvement to pull a lot of people off of food stamps. pull people off of welfare. a lot of these support programs -- we need to see a much broader recovery to see improvement in that sense. when the most striking figures that comes out every month and this report -- if you looked at the breakdown of unemployment...
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Nov 24, 2012
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in the sense that if things really got off the tracks with regard to either iran or syria or now with israel's problems on the gaza and so on, both sides of be careful. they do not look at things exactly the same way. it will not matter if we find that things the things to get done are being stymied. i am not predicting that. i would pick a star next to that. see somee're going to renewed efforts over the next several months to see if there is a path for north korea. i do not see the obama administration changing the terms of agreement. one just reiterated that we will not. you also have a new government in seoul. no matter who wins, they will be looking toward some more engagement. that could indeed complement -- complicate things in the u.s. and china. on these issues, i think the focus was absolutely right. china is basically, if you talk privately to folks from the mainland, what you get is we did not start it. we fix it. this is a rather unfortunate attitude. it may be pretty all too accurate a reading. i have nothing to add to what he just said about the possible involvement at
in the sense that if things really got off the tracks with regard to either iran or syria or now with israel's problems on the gaza and so on, both sides of be careful. they do not look at things exactly the same way. it will not matter if we find that things the things to get done are being stymied. i am not predicting that. i would pick a star next to that. see somee're going to renewed efforts over the next several months to see if there is a path for north korea. i do not see the obama...
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Nov 13, 2012
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so we don't have the division that we're facing in syria. so we have a unified international community and that helps support the political settlement. so i think this opportunity should be used. so far there are cycles the settlements are facing but we should have hope and faith and i think with the success of this political settlement, this provides a ground for hope in the future. thank you. >> thank you. greg? >> yeah, i'd like to echo dan in thanking you all for coming out on this very dreary day. especially after a holiday for i'm sure many of you. and thanks to ibrahim as well from doha for stage up a little bit late and giving us those great insights. as all of us know, the united states has just been through a presidential election. president obama was re-elected. and the obama administration had a number of i think foreign policy and counterterrorism successes during the first administration. obviously osama bin laden was killed in the special operations raid. president obama's oversea drawdown of tops in iraq as well as afghanista
so we don't have the division that we're facing in syria. so we have a unified international community and that helps support the political settlement. so i think this opportunity should be used. so far there are cycles the settlements are facing but we should have hope and faith and i think with the success of this political settlement, this provides a ground for hope in the future. thank you. >> thank you. greg? >> yeah, i'd like to echo dan in thanking you all for coming out on...
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Nov 20, 2012
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running a caravan with army trucks and them leaving to take the weapons into syria. the fellow that did the movie to begin with got murdered. i agree to put some other information on -- am going to put some other information on youtube. some of it is so graphic that will have to get it myself. soldiers and democrats hate soldiers. i do not know why they hate them so bad. this movie is when to make amends with them. i appreciate your time. guest: i look forward to seeing the evidence, but one of the great myths is the weapons of mass destruction were taken to syria. i have looked at the evidence that has been available. the best evidence is the truck convoys moving from baghdad to syria just before the american invasion. what they were with the bath party records and personal wealth and all sorts of things that later were used to do fund the beginning of the insurgency in iraq. it was not weapons of mass destruction. there are films of weapons of mass destruction be used, because the dog hussain use them against the kurdish people in airstrikes years earlier. i wonder
running a caravan with army trucks and them leaving to take the weapons into syria. the fellow that did the movie to begin with got murdered. i agree to put some other information on -- am going to put some other information on youtube. some of it is so graphic that will have to get it myself. soldiers and democrats hate soldiers. i do not know why they hate them so bad. this movie is when to make amends with them. i appreciate your time. guest: i look forward to seeing the evidence, but one of...
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Nov 16, 2012
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and complain about the russians supporting the thugs in syria. that's not something you can use the w.t.o. for. we are giving up the tools we have to try and push russia on economic issues. and we're binding ourselves to this international body which has a secret dispute resolution process with unelected bureaucrats who have no conflict of interest rules. now, that's a powerful tool we're going to use against those russians. it's worked real well against the chinese. it doesn't work against the way the chinese are manipulating their market to keep out our goods, to steal our international property, and all the host of other unfair trade practices there that the russians can just duplicate very easily. the w.t.o. is not the solution to these issues. we have more power today with a bilateral agreement. we have more power today with the capability of depriving them of a normal trade relations status with the united states. if we want to use our clout, we should vote this bill down. it's not just about syria and human rights and a host of other abuse
and complain about the russians supporting the thugs in syria. that's not something you can use the w.t.o. for. we are giving up the tools we have to try and push russia on economic issues. and we're binding ourselves to this international body which has a secret dispute resolution process with unelected bureaucrats who have no conflict of interest rules. now, that's a powerful tool we're going to use against those russians. it's worked real well against the chinese. it doesn't work against the...
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Nov 2, 2012
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syria has defended -- descended into civil war. united states sends hundreds of billions of dollars in federal aid to countries around the world democracies and dictators. what should be the basic guiding principles of american foreign policies? >> fundamentally, i would have to say that freedom is something we need to encourage across the world. that me talk about christopher's stevens and what happened. his death along with three others is a tragedy, and that has been in a lot of people's thoughts and prayers. we need to get to the bottom of that, and i'm not here to speculate on who did what, but we need to find out and the american people need to know. i hope it will be transparent and can be clear so, two things will come out of it. people need to be held accountable, but also we can learn from that, so in the future if we have diplomats abroad we can ensure we are protecting them. as it relates to other countries, and there is turmoil in the middle east, from my perspective, that is one thing that we have done in north dakota
syria has defended -- descended into civil war. united states sends hundreds of billions of dollars in federal aid to countries around the world democracies and dictators. what should be the basic guiding principles of american foreign policies? >> fundamentally, i would have to say that freedom is something we need to encourage across the world. that me talk about christopher's stevens and what happened. his death along with three others is a tragedy, and that has been in a lot of...
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Nov 9, 2012
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host: what do you think policy should be regarding syria? 5000 people killed in the uprising. caller: those rebels are not syrian. they were planted there. it is really funny. when obama put troops into israel, i think he did all of this for reelection. i am relieved mitt romney did not get elected even though i did not vote for either. i think obama might do the right thing and cut ties with israel. host: we will go to a report actually on syrian president assad. this in "usa today." he said "i am not a puppet." we have a few minutes left on the first segment of "the washington journal." we will go to pete in rhode island on the democrat line. caller: good morning. i would like to see him focus on the economy. host: specifically what part? caller: let's go with the fiscal cliff coming up. my thoughts were my belief is, and i hope somebody calls and corrects me or you correct me, if the fiscal cliff is reached on january 1, the first thing to go would be the bust tax cuts. everything else will be phased in over time. we can let the tax cuts hit. it will then come to the table
host: what do you think policy should be regarding syria? 5000 people killed in the uprising. caller: those rebels are not syrian. they were planted there. it is really funny. when obama put troops into israel, i think he did all of this for reelection. i am relieved mitt romney did not get elected even though i did not vote for either. i think obama might do the right thing and cut ties with israel. host: we will go to a report actually on syrian president assad. this in "usa today."...
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Nov 9, 2012
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host: what do you think policy should be regarding syria? 5000 people killed in the uprising. caller: those rebels are not syrian. they were planted there. it is really funny. when obama put troops into israel, i think he did all of this for reelection. i am relieved mitt romney did not get elected even though i did not vote for either. i think obama might do the right thing and cut ties with israel. host: we will go to a report actually on syrian president assad. this in "usa today." he said "i am not a puppet." we have a few minutes left on the first segment of "the washington journal." we will go to pete in rhode island on the democrat line. caller: good morning. i would like to see him focus on the economy. host: specifically what part? caller: let's go with the fiscal cliff coming up. my thoughts were my belief is, and i hope somebody calls and corrects me or you correct me, if the fiscal cliff is reached on january 1, the first thing to go would be the bust tax cuts. everything else will be phased in over time. we can let the tax cuts hit. it will then come to the table
host: what do you think policy should be regarding syria? 5000 people killed in the uprising. caller: those rebels are not syrian. they were planted there. it is really funny. when obama put troops into israel, i think he did all of this for reelection. i am relieved mitt romney did not get elected even though i did not vote for either. i think obama might do the right thing and cut ties with israel. host: we will go to a report actually on syrian president assad. this in "usa today."...
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Nov 16, 2012
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steps you will need to see from north korea, especially given recent evidence that their shipments to syria and elsewhere continue. >> with respect to north korea -- they would have to demonstrate a seriousness of purpose with respect to meeting their dated goal of denuclearization. we have not seen that. we have engaged with the north koreans on a normal basis. we have not seen the steps from them to date. we have also laid out clearly what they need to do in terms of that kind of demonstration of seriousness with respect to denuclearization. we have not seen that from them at this point. that is an interesting question about you asked burma and the united states and president obama's embrace of their reform efforts and support for it. in no other way that you can imagine is an entry by burma into the international community and what opportunity that it provides economically. that is an important focus of the burmese leadership. the economic prospects and promises of their coming into the international community and supported by the u.s. that is a path that if the north koreans would addre
steps you will need to see from north korea, especially given recent evidence that their shipments to syria and elsewhere continue. >> with respect to north korea -- they would have to demonstrate a seriousness of purpose with respect to meeting their dated goal of denuclearization. we have not seen that. we have engaged with the north koreans on a normal basis. we have not seen the steps from them to date. we have also laid out clearly what they need to do in terms of that kind of...
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Nov 22, 2012
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we are engaged by what happens syria, but i do not know if shed a great deal of light. i know you began by asking what is happening in gaza and what i think about that. >> yes. >> any time israel is involved in a story, did becomes excruciatingly -- id becomes excruciatingly difficult to cover, because there is a sense of identity in this country with israelis, and many reporters, old friends and colleagues of mine used to be criticized for taking an anti- israeli point of view. he spent many years living in the arab world and had a sympathetic. of view to arabs. -- point of view to arabs. i think what is happening in gaza right now meets in the definition of tragedy. the israelis cannot be expected to stand by while their cities are rocketed. on the other hand, the idea that the israeli defense forces are equally professional, the number of casualties on the palestinian side are going to be much greater. they are leaving an impression there is something unfair. this is the time you need correspondents who have spent years in the region, because by and large, you ask wh
we are engaged by what happens syria, but i do not know if shed a great deal of light. i know you began by asking what is happening in gaza and what i think about that. >> yes. >> any time israel is involved in a story, did becomes excruciatingly -- id becomes excruciatingly difficult to cover, because there is a sense of identity in this country with israelis, and many reporters, old friends and colleagues of mine used to be criticized for taking an anti- israeli point of view. he...
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Nov 15, 2012
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they are trying to get us involved in syria. i would say, that is the place to have big cuts. we all ought to agree on doing that. i would not raise taxes. that isn't the problem. we need to cut the spending. if you raise taxes, you're going to have a weaker economy. some of the tax cuts, even for the middle class occurred with the bush administration. you do not want to raise taxes on the middle class. say, no, just do it on the rich. it will not be enough money. i think you have touched on something. i think we need to deal with the military. we can't do that unless we change our foreign policy and not assume the role as the world policeman and getting involved in all these countries. i would think the american people ought to agree on that issue more readily than anything else. i do not see why we should talk about cutting health care for children or for the elderly and social security -- i do not think that is where you start. i think we have to start by changing our foreign policy. host: as republicans come to the negotiating table in the next couple of weeks, what do you
they are trying to get us involved in syria. i would say, that is the place to have big cuts. we all ought to agree on doing that. i would not raise taxes. that isn't the problem. we need to cut the spending. if you raise taxes, you're going to have a weaker economy. some of the tax cuts, even for the middle class occurred with the bush administration. you do not want to raise taxes on the middle class. say, no, just do it on the rich. it will not be enough money. i think you have touched on...
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we are engaged by what happens in seriocomic often -- happens in syria, but i do not know if shed a great deal of light. i know you began by asking what and what ig in dawsogaza think about that. >> yes. >> any time israel is involved in a story, did becomes excruciatingly -- id becomes excruciatingly difficult to cover, because there is a sense of identity in this country with israelis, and many reporters, old friends and colleagues of mine used to be criticized for taking an anti-is really point of view -- anti-is really point of view. he spent many years living in the arab world and had a sympathetic. of view to arabs. i think what is happening in gaza right now meets in the definition of tragedy. the israelis cannot be expected to stand by while their cities are rocketed. on the other hand, the idea that the israeli defense forces are equally professional, the number of casualties on the palestinian side are going to be much greater. they are leaving an impression there is something unfair. this is the time you need correspondents who have spent years in the region, because by and lar
we are engaged by what happens in seriocomic often -- happens in syria, but i do not know if shed a great deal of light. i know you began by asking what and what ig in dawsogaza think about that. >> yes. >> any time israel is involved in a story, did becomes excruciatingly -- id becomes excruciatingly difficult to cover, because there is a sense of identity in this country with israelis, and many reporters, old friends and colleagues of mine used to be criticized for taking an...
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Nov 1, 2012
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try to reduce the instability that impact our national security, whether it be in the middle east in syria, iran, pakistan, afghanistan? whether it be out in the pacific in china. look at what is going on with the islands in the pacific. a 29-year-old leader in charge of korea. we do not know what he is going to do in the future. what does that mean to the future and security of our country? i do not know. these are questions we have to be prepared to operate in. the other thing i have learned the hard way over the last several years is you have what i call opportunists, who will try to take advantage of instability in nation-government or failing government. these opportunities may be unpredictable. i always use iraq as an example. there are a lot of opportunists in iraq. they are trying to take advantage of a situation. how does that project itself around the world? what does that mean for us as you look at future conflicts? >> former chief of staff spoke in washington earlier today. you can see his remarks in their entirety tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern. >> i have watched shows on the we
try to reduce the instability that impact our national security, whether it be in the middle east in syria, iran, pakistan, afghanistan? whether it be out in the pacific in china. look at what is going on with the islands in the pacific. a 29-year-old leader in charge of korea. we do not know what he is going to do in the future. what does that mean to the future and security of our country? i do not know. these are questions we have to be prepared to operate in. the other thing i have learned...